Jonathan Kamm (kammagic) Exposed

kammagic · 12-03-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Hey Jonathan,

Thank you for joining and for posting.

However, the post seems to be both valid and invalid to me so please allow me to analyze it using a comment Vincent (M4sterV) recentely sent to us with your reply to it. It has to do with the video which Vincent linked to in his post in this thread.

Also, I do not know if this was manipulated by Vincent in any way but I will trust him that it was not, and that it was copied and pasted directly from the YouTube PMs.

The main steps
1. Granted, because you sent him a PM and so you did not ignore him;

2. Although there is not much advice in the comment because he said it was something personal, the post seems to be good and valid to me. I would have approved this if it was posted to one of our videos;

3. By your reaction I guess that the comment was understood;

4. It is not clear where Vincent got the information from although that does not seem to matter in this case;

5. Talking to Vincent quite regularly, I am pretty sure that he does have good sources for everything he says so I guess this would not have been any problem;

6. He knows what he is talking about;

7. Other than "Anything else I can help you with?", no question was asked.

Other things you take into consideration
1. I do not see any intention to humiliate you in public;

2. The tone of voice seems to be fine;

3. There is no exposure and I do not know whether it was intentional or not, but Vincent's use of "lift" rather than fully naming the sleight seems to be a big part of that. I must point out that at the previous step you said that "Why would you use that DL?" would be approved. "DL" seems to be extremely close to exposure to me though. But I do not know if this point (3) would still have it removed or not;

4. No boasting. Instead, compliments were given.
I personally tend to approve the boasting kind of comments because in the end others will reply that do not care about it. In some cases it are actual laymen posting such comments which then turns it into something very valuable. Of course, this does not count for the "first post" kind of comments;

5. No anonymous posting.

The two situations in which you find criticism appropriate
1. Vincent asked for advice;

2. I doubt that he is an authority to you.

Conclusion
Although you said that you removed the comment due to magic exposure, I do not see that. This is a random message from the many messages I received, certainly not all of them coming from Vincent and not all of them being related to magic. In some cases it is rather obvious why you removed the comments, yet in other cases there is very valid feedback given which according to your post should actually have been approved.

I stand my conclusion, especially because you started marketing your release by saying that the tutorial is a steal at $12.50. Nothing wrong with that but flat out saying it does seem to be a little cheap to me, as well as that you apparently had to concentrate on the lift before it worked. Honestly, that does not sound like a good one to me.

Then in reply to the latest part of your post, I have to agree that you may look at things differently and that that is not up to us to judge. But it seems to upset quite a lot of people. If that many people do not get why their comments were not approved, I wonder if it is really their fault. In the most extreme example it would be the same as starting a war because you believe that that would make the world a better place and yourself a more respected person.

Well I thought it was insulting saying that my tutorial was not worth $12.50. I consider his mention of lifts exposure and he is also insulting my DL saying it isn't very good because I didnt hit it the first time. There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then because of this or that. I missed it twice then hit it the 3rd time, I don't see any problem with that. The audience didn't either. I also answered all his questions so I still see no problem here.

I have had nobody complain about any of my tutorials who have bought them. If any did feel they were inferior I would gladly refund their money.

Basically what it comes down to is I post my videos for free, they are gifts and nobody has any right to complain about them. If you do you are being petty and disrespectful.

---------- Post added at 04:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Hey Jon,
I got so many things to ask now.

The first three I thought of:

1) Why wouldn't you have others decide if a comment is valuable or not? If it's a bad comment or bad advice your regulars will be telling that to the person who left it or they will not give it thumbs up.

That way you get a much more realistic representation of the video ratings in case that is enabled and you make it yourself a lot easier because you only have to filter the comments including exposure.

We live in the era of 'Web 2.0' but you use it as 'Web 1.0' in which interactivity was almost non-existing. Back then it was normal to not be able to give opinions in public but now this leads to a legit damage of the image of businesses and persons in question.

2) I completely miss spectators' opinions in your huge list of steps and situations. If a layman gives criticism, it doesn't seem like you would approve that.

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between live performances and video performances. Effects that work great in real life are much more obvious in video performances to both magicians and laymen.

3) What exactly did you disagree on about Vincent's 'Crazy Man's Handcuffs' feedback?

Thanks.

1. Easy answer: My channel is mine I make the decisions, I choose how it looks, I choose what comments are appropriate. If you don't like the decisions I make simply don't subscribe. Do you let strangers clean your house, choose schools for your children or make other decisions. I would hope not.

2. What purpose would a layman have for criticizing my work on my public comments other than insulting my work? If they had a legitimate idea or way to improve they would contact me privately. Most criticism is hater nonsense and not worth approving.

3. I disagree with his suggestion. I would not do it the way he suggested. I feel you should never go back and forth. The 2 bands should touch in the center and not go near the ends. Its a possible solution. You could of gotten them off at the ends.

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------

Imagine this. If your first contact with a person is criticism no matter what it is you are saying it is going to be insulting. You are a stranger. It would be like going up to somebody you don't know and telling them "Dude you should not wear that shirt." How do you think that person would feel? Would they thank you? No they would be pretty upset. Not necessarily about the comment but your lack of respect in thinking it was alright to make that comment.

Its all about respect. You show me respect and I will listen to what you have to say.

It even takes your best friend a long time before they feel they have earned the right to criticize you. If you are a stranger it is never cool.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------

Its been brought to my attention that you gentleman may not be aware of the following.

I do magic for a living? I have no other job. I have been with the same restaurant for 13 years that is very rare in this business. While working there I also did 4 years with another brewery and 5 years with two other major restaurant chains. I also do private shows for some of the biggest companies in the area. I just recently started a regular gig at the Hollywood Casino and I plan on lecturing next year.

Richard,

Regarding my comment "Highest rated" 'Most viewed" on YouTube. It is not a lie. It refers to a video of my performance of a routine. It is the highest rated most viewed video of that routine on YouTube. Surpassing Bill Malones, Daryls and Tommy Wonders. When you look up the routine on Wikipedia it's my video.

When I need advice I ask people who are more skilled, more experienced, and more knowledgeable then I am. This is the way to get ahead in life. Avoiding negativity is another way to get ahead in life and the internet is full of it. Of course not all advice is negative. But all the best advice I have ever gotten in my 40+ years has been from people more knowledgeable, more skilled and more experienced than I am. I'm a very positive person and I listen and learn from people who know what they are talking about. I have even met friends on YouTube who have come and seen me work. Young magicians who I have helped get into the restaurant business. I learn from them and they learn from me. They came to meet me. We shared some magic. We got to know each other and now I value their opinion. They are bright and respectful young men who went about it the right way.

If your first interaction with me is you criticizing my work. You are not going to win any points.

It's all about respect. I find the pro magic world is full of very respectful people. They get it. But the internet forum magic crowd can be scary. I have never seen such mean and disrespectful people.

Richard · 12-03-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Well I thought it was insulting saying that my tutorial was not worth $12.50. I consider his mention of lifts exposure and he is also insulting my DL saying it isn't very good because I didnt hit it the first time. There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then because of this or that. I missed it twice then hit it the 3rd time, I don't see any problem with that. The audience didn't either. I also answered all his questions so I still see no problem here.

I have had nobody complain about any of my tutorials who have bought them. If any did feel they were inferior I would gladly refund their money.

Basically what it comes down to is I post my videos for free, they are gifts and nobody has any right to complain about them. If you do you are being petty and disrespectful

I think it is because I am an outsider, but it does not look insulting to me at all. It would have been different if he would have said that it was not worth the $12.50 instead of asking about it. A response like "There isn't a DL in the world that you don't miss now and then" would have been a lot more appropriate in that case, rather than just marketing it saying that it is a steal. It is the difference between informercials and quality marketing. I really hope you do not like the first one the most.

Also, I still do not see how the word 'lifts' is considered to be exposure. Anyone watching the video could see you actually slipped when trying to grab and lift the card. If Vincent intentionally wrote it like that, he definitely thought about not exposing it. Intentionally or not, he did not reveal anything.

From all the messages I read, I can tell that Vincent has only been trying to help and shared his views and ideas about the effects with you. In response, you reacted as if he did not know what he was talking about. Some people who care a lot about the art did notice that the replay in your 'One More Time' video gives away the effect to laymen and let you know about that. Some others have been trying to help as for video-technical aspects like the extremely long intro which now is much better.

Of course, there are haters who just like to hate on others, but I see that you also treat people who do not hate on you at all as actual haters. I do not know why this is or if you got so many more haters than helpers that you assume all people who mention such things automatically are hating on you, but I personally see complaining and trying to help as two completely different things.

When no one is allowed to 'complain', that would be the moment to get rid of the comment sections completely. This would force those who complain to PM you about what they dislike about you and your magic. Even better yet, is that it forces everyone to think about your videos whatever they want rather than being pushed in a positive direction while it is not the best video in the world and ending up being disappointed or upset to figure out you do not approve their feedback. This is exactly why many people contacted us about you.

Quote:

Imagine this. If your first contact with a person is criticism no matter what it is you are saying it is going to be insulting. You are a stranger. It would be like going up to somebody you don't know and telling them "Dude you should not wear that shirt." How do you think that person would feel? Would they thank you? No they would be pretty upset. Not necessarily about the comment but your lack of respect in thinking it was alright to make that comment.

Its all about respect. You show me respect and I will listen to what you have to say.

It even takes your best friend a long time before they feel they have earned the right to criticize you. If you are a stranger it is never cool.

That is a very valid point but it seems to be the difference between real life and the internet. On the internet, everyone is allowed to say whatever they want. Of course that means haters are too, and it is not that I like that, but it is good to know that you and I can say whatever we want as well. I am sure you have been using that freedom yourself too.

And often it are strangers who can judge something the best. If you already know someone, you are biased and this will have a lot of influence on the comment and rating you would give this person. For instance, if you would do a very bad trick your regulars know that you are capable of doing better and they will not dislike it that fast. On the other hand, when someone just finds out about you and watches the bad trick first, they can and might tell that it is not all that good.

But at least it is clear what you are coming from now. Thank you.

Mark · 12-03-2010, 04:14 PM

Thanks for the answers! I don't necessarily agree with them but thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.

Instead of being all critic over it, I just want to remind you that you probably were the very first person who ever criticized me back when we were strangers to each other. You were in a very powerful position and I was just a beginner. So are you disliking on your own actions too or do you really think you got more rights than anyone else to say whatever you want because you are so much more experienced?

Because of the part you wrote that was automatically added to your big post later I'll have to mention the very first rule of this forum board. Please keep this in mind:

Quote:

Everyone is equal
All of us are human beings and we all deserve each other's respect. This also means we expect everyone to respect each other's opinions, performances and all the different kinds of arts, even if it is something you totally don't like or agree with. The only exception is if the person in question is not following the forum rules.

Also, Administrators and (Top) Moderators are here just to keep the forums clean and to guide those who need help with the forums. They are in no way better than any other person on here. This differs from most other forums out there where staff and elite members cause a lot of unnecessary trouble and hate by thinking they are better than the rest of the community. Please don't worry.

kammagic · 12-03-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

Thanks for the answers! I don't necessarily agree with them but thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.

Instead of being all critic over it, I just want to remind you that you probably were the very first person who ever criticized me back when we were strangers to each other. You were in a very powerful position and I was just a beginner. So are you disliking on your own actions too or do you really think you got more rights than anyone else to say whatever you want because you are so much more experienced?

Because of the part you wrote that was automatically added to your big post later I'll have to mention the very first rule of this forum board. Please keep this in mind:

Mark,

Do you think it's respectful of this forum to talk negatively about me behind my back? Devoting an entire thread to bashing me and never inviting me to defend myself. I think this forum has shown me very little respect. Wouldn't you agree?