Tricks that seem like real magic?

Albert · 12-03-2011, 11:04 PM

So I was wondering what tricks there were that really make people believe in what people call 'witchcraft'?

For example, things like biokinesis or pure smoke seem like real magic to people. I find that for card tricks, people sometimes tend to convince themselves as sleight-of-hand, which makes the magical aspect disappear from their mind.

Not things like a topit or the raven as they are really limited to smaller objects. Any ideas?

twiztedking · 12-04-2011, 12:33 AM

Definitely haunted deck tricks, redemption, or any trick that also uses other objects but i get best reactions to packet tricks

Johnny Silver · 12-04-2011, 12:56 AM

Albert-You know thats exactly how I feel about cards too, but to answer your question...Mentalism. Some people actually think its real, and alot of psychics use mentalism techniques to mislead people that what they are doing is real (which is wrong) Objects levitating or floating, most sensible people think "string", but reading someones mind or knowing a thought they are thinking can be really creepy for them. Most of the time people dont even applaude,like a magic effect. They look at each other in disbelief and thier mouths drop open, which for me is better

I always never claim to be a psychic, I attribute what happens to body language and psychology. I like saying things like "have you ever had deja vu, or has the phone ever rang and you know who it was before you answered it? These are real experiences that people can have.

Last year after a talent show where I did some mentalism, I had a lawyer come up to me and tell me she believed I had psychic abilitys, and wondered if I would consider working on some cases with her. She also knew I was a magician, but thought I could still read people( which I can).

Albert · 12-04-2011, 03:12 AM

See, I love mentalism for that reason, but there are also drawbacks to it that I don't like too much. Children or the younger audience don't appreciate mentalism as much (as many times they like visual things better) and secondly, mentalism doesn't hit non-participants as hard as participants in terms of its 'amazingness' (that's not even a word

).

One of the reasons I started this thread was due to this recent title I am being given as a 'magician'. In English, a magician can be easily interpreted as someone who does magic, not simply magic tricks. In other words, a magician implies someone being able to do the 'black arts', making things vanish, levitate, burn, etc. In Korean, there is a clear cut line on what a 'magician' is: a person who does magic tricks. It doesn't imply someone who is able to perform something bigger and more magic-like. Someone beyond petty tricks is I guess what one could call a wizard or a magi or a sorcerer. I guess my point is that I feel really bad being called a simple trickster because I want people to feel and believe they are really seeing magic, not just petty tricks. I feel like I'm not doing my job, no matter how well I perform a trick, a lot of the times because they are with cards.

That's why I'm looking for something greater that I can work on; something that can't be excused away by sleight-of-hands. Of course, mentalism aside that is

I actually should work more on mentalism...

Johnny Silver · 12-04-2011, 06:21 AM

I agree with children, not appreciating it so much, but being a person who does more mentalism than magic, I disagree that it doesnt hit non-participants as hard. (but thats a whole other conversation, lets stick to the point )
I was wondering where you were going with this subject. In reality we are just tricksters, all of us. Displaying your magic as something more than trickery can be a dangerous game. (like using mentalism for psychics) Man,you are a awesome magician,dont let the art consume you tho. We are entertainers, and the magic we do is for entertainment, nothing more. (beside fun and money

) Let people draw thier own conclusion to your role based on your patter or style of tricks. Dont be bothered or held down by a "title". You are a magician,not a wizard

These are just my opinions bro, just tryin to help you find your path...see ya

One more update...Have you considered stage magic? It looks very magical, and alot of stage stuff doesnt look like sleight of hand....also you can develop a really cool character as your stage personality

la0o9 · 12-04-2011, 06:40 AM

to me, anything that is "popular"( cards, ropes, coins...) will seem like a magic trick in front of people, if i HAVE to make "real" magic happen in front of people, i'd use sleights, but on things they weren't supposed to be used on, or simply a prepared gimmick( most of the time i don't have this... so... yeah).

There are 2 effects, card effects, that is just insane, as they will hit people, of ALL ages, hard if performed well, no matter what( well, at least, under normal circumstances). They are "Stigmata"( spectator take a card, put it back, they keep all the cards, i make the name of their card appear on my arm) and "Card to mouth"( one time use, and requires a bit of crowd control, but worth all the effort). i use them from time to time when i need a bit of attention to try out a new trick.

i think you can use them Albert.

Albert · 12-04-2011, 06:43 AM

@ Johnny:
I guess you are right in a way, but I just become disappointed in myself for not being able to do what I want.

I think Lee Asher said something similar (maybe he reiterated another person's word), but I remember him saying something like 'if you walk away from your spectators without making them think you are the greatest magician they've ever seen, you haven't done your job as a magician.' Of course, that's a little bit of an exaggeration in my opinion, but I do understand where he's coming from.

I guess I just feel like I want to take a step further in my magic. But I'm not sure how to take that step and so, I think I stumbled upon making this thread...

Oh, and I've performed many stage performances in the past, the most recent one being on October for a charity. Ah... good times

@ La:

Yeah, if I do think back on it, there were times when I made some few people believe that magic was real using cards. I guess I'm just not reminiscing those times enough these days...

KGaborMagic · 12-04-2011, 08:51 AM

The answer is easy: Mark's tricks. They are real magic.

Fin · 12-05-2011, 12:54 AM

For me one of the most important things seems to be who I perform for rather than what trick I choose, although that is obviously also very important. Some people don't need much before they think you're performing real magic; others need to see more incredible things before they are amazed.

On which tricks are best, that's down to performance more than anything. A simple card force done well with a solid, well performed reveal can be a complete miracle. I have performed alchemy for a couple of people and seen genuine looks of panic in their eyes as it hits them. The sleeves were up.. I was a few feet from their face, and yet the solid piece of metal vanished at my fingertips. Even just a really good retention vanish can be done so close-up and so convincingly that I feel it can provide an incredibly strong moment of "real" feeling magic, when done really well, but then I'm a visual magic kind of guy. I LOVE mentalism but at the moment, the type of magic I want to perform is the visual stuff.

I think it's valuable to think carefully about exactly what you want to give others, and what you want to gain yourself, from your magic. Some magicians want to amaze, some want to confuse, some want to fool, some want to trick, etc. I, like you, want people to hopefully have that moment where they think "wow is this guy actually doing something impossible here; could magic be real?". I'm happy to say that occasionally I do indeed get that sort of reaction, and I'm sure you must do too Albert

Sounds like maybe its time to go through your repertoire and strip out the "tricks" and get it down to the "pure magic" feeling magic that you know;- to build one of those routines that, by the end, has hit them with so many miracles, that they are left truly spellbound and hypnotised, although I'm pretty sure you've probably achieved that long ago. I recommend studying the recent big names who seemed to have done well at this. Derren Brown and David Blaine are two names that immediately spring to mind when I think of people who really had me thinking "

WTF

" when I saw them from a layman's perspective.

Albert · 12-05-2011, 02:46 AM

That definitely helps a lot Fin. Yeah... I really do think I need to re-work on my repertoire. I've been focusing so much on particular moves this past year and a half that I think I'm losing my touch on tricks and ways to add the magic touch...

I think I'll really rework my routines.

Thanks to all!

TheCardician96 · 12-05-2011, 09:53 AM

I would use Alchemy for my tricks by Ben Seidman where he vanishes the coin and shows both sides of his hands and will freak the spectator out.

TommySteal · 12-05-2011, 12:58 PM

Hey Albert, I wonder if you ever saw this...beautiful card magic?

Albert · 12-05-2011, 02:38 PM

Oh my... how could I forget about Derren Brown... >.<;

He definitely is an amazing guys. I shall work on these tricks... although I have exam so I can't now

Alchemy is pretty good too. But Globe is hard enough hahaha

la0o9 · 12-05-2011, 09:42 PM

now i remember just how good a magician Derren Brown is... and a mentalist as well...

thetophatfirm · 12-05-2011, 10:04 PM

Al schneider

Alexander · 12-09-2011, 03:58 PM

Not so long time ago I performed a simple riffle force and stigmata revelation. After the performance (for a little crowd) some guys afterwards came to me and asked "Man, are you serious? Can you really read minds? That is devilish!". And they were not joking, absolutely serious about their question. That got me a good laughter afterwards

Randy · 12-09-2011, 10:54 PM

You could try Ultracinese i got strong reactions of it very fun to do .
or Micro Psychic i think that 1 is even better .

OliveroG · 12-31-2011, 09:31 PM

There's a method explained on Juan Tamariz's book (La via mágica in spanish) where he talks about how improve your "sleight of hand" and turn it into magic, he uses a method he calls "fake hints", really amazing book, every magician should read it; 100% effective to make people believe you're doing miracles (even if it's the most stupid trick to the eyes of the magician and layman)

12-03-2011, 11:04 PM	#1
Albert DarkSleightZ Artist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 671 Donor Score: 110	Tricks that seem like real magic? So I was wondering what tricks there were that really make people believe in what people call 'witchcraft'? For example, things like biokinesis or pure smoke seem like real magic to people. I find that for card tricks, people sometimes tend to convince themselves as sleight-of-hand, which makes the magical aspect disappear from their mind. Not things like a topit or the raven as they are really limited to smaller objects. Any ideas? __________________ "Bluffing is an important act to all strategies." - Lelouch Lamperouge

12-04-2011, 03:12 AM	#4
Albert DarkSleightZ Artist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 671 Donor Score: 110	See, I love mentalism for that reason, but there are also drawbacks to it that I don't like too much. Children or the younger audience don't appreciate mentalism as much (as many times they like visual things better) and secondly, mentalism doesn't hit non-participants as hard as participants in terms of its 'amazingness' (that's not even a word ). One of the reasons I started this thread was due to this recent title I am being given as a 'magician'. In English, a magician can be easily interpreted as someone who does magic, not simply magic tricks. In other words, a magician implies someone being able to do the 'black arts', making things vanish, levitate, burn, etc. In Korean, there is a clear cut line on what a 'magician' is: a person who does magic tricks. It doesn't imply someone who is able to perform something bigger and more magic-like. Someone beyond petty tricks is I guess what one could call a wizard or a magi or a sorcerer. I guess my point is that I feel really bad being called a simple trickster because I want people to feel and believe they are really seeing magic, not just petty tricks. I feel like I'm not doing my job, no matter how well I perform a trick, a lot of the times because they are with cards. That's why I'm looking for something greater that I can work on; something that can't be excused away by sleight-of-hands. Of course, mentalism aside that is I actually should work more on mentalism... __________________ "Bluffing is an important act to all strategies." - Lelouch Lamperouge

12-04-2011, 06:40 AM	#6
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	to me, anything that is "popular"( cards, ropes, coins...) will seem like a magic trick in front of people, if i HAVE to make "real" magic happen in front of people, i'd use sleights, but on things they weren't supposed to be used on, or simply a prepared gimmick( most of the time i don't have this... so... yeah). There are 2 effects, card effects, that is just insane, as they will hit people, of ALL ages, hard if performed well, no matter what( well, at least, under normal circumstances). They are "Stigmata"( spectator take a card, put it back, they keep all the cards, i make the name of their card appear on my arm) and "Card to mouth"( one time use, and requires a bit of crowd control, but worth all the effort). i use them from time to time when i need a bit of attention to try out a new trick. i think you can use them Albert. __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

12-04-2011, 06:43 AM	#7
Albert DarkSleightZ Artist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 671 Donor Score: 110	@ Johnny: I guess you are right in a way, but I just become disappointed in myself for not being able to do what I want. I think Lee Asher said something similar (maybe he reiterated another person's word), but I remember him saying something like 'if you walk away from your spectators without making them think you are the greatest magician they've ever seen, you haven't done your job as a magician.' Of course, that's a little bit of an exaggeration in my opinion, but I do understand where he's coming from. I guess I just feel like I want to take a step further in my magic. But I'm not sure how to take that step and so, I think I stumbled upon making this thread... Oh, and I've performed many stage performances in the past, the most recent one being on October for a charity. Ah... good times @ La: Yeah, if I do think back on it, there were times when I made some few people believe that magic was real using cards. I guess I'm just not reminiscing those times enough these days... __________________ "Bluffing is an important act to all strategies." - Lelouch Lamperouge

12-05-2011, 12:54 AM	#9
Fin Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 530	For me one of the most important things seems to be who I perform for rather than what trick I choose, although that is obviously also very important. Some people don't need much before they think you're performing real magic; others need to see more incredible things before they are amazed. On which tricks are best, that's down to performance more than anything. A simple card force done well with a solid, well performed reveal can be a complete miracle. I have performed alchemy for a couple of people and seen genuine looks of panic in their eyes as it hits them. The sleeves were up.. I was a few feet from their face, and yet the solid piece of metal vanished at my fingertips. Even just a really good retention vanish can be done so close-up and so convincingly that I feel it can provide an incredibly strong moment of "real" feeling magic, when done really well, but then I'm a visual magic kind of guy. I LOVE mentalism but at the moment, the type of magic I want to perform is the visual stuff. I think it's valuable to think carefully about exactly what you want to give others, and what you want to gain yourself, from your magic. Some magicians want to amaze, some want to confuse, some want to fool, some want to trick, etc. I, like you, want people to hopefully have that moment where they think "wow is this guy actually doing something impossible here; could magic be real?". I'm happy to say that occasionally I do indeed get that sort of reaction, and I'm sure you must do too Albert Sounds like maybe its time to go through your repertoire and strip out the "tricks" and get it down to the "pure magic" feeling magic that you know;- to build one of those routines that, by the end, has hit them with so many miracles, that they are left truly spellbound and hypnotised, although I'm pretty sure you've probably achieved that long ago. I recommend studying the recent big names who seemed to have done well at this. Derren Brown and David Blaine are two names that immediately spring to mind when I think of people who really had me thinking "WTF" when I saw them from a layman's perspective.

12-04-2011, 12:33 AM	#2
twiztedking Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 17	Definitely haunted deck tricks, redemption, or any trick that also uses other objects but i get best reactions to packet tricks

12-04-2011, 12:56 AM	#3
Johnny Silver Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 52 Donor Score: 100	Albert-You know thats exactly how I feel about cards too, but to answer your question...Mentalism. Some people actually think its real, and alot of psychics use mentalism techniques to mislead people that what they are doing is real (which is wrong) Objects levitating or floating, most sensible people think "string", but reading someones mind or knowing a thought they are thinking can be really creepy for them. Most of the time people dont even applaude,like a magic effect. They look at each other in disbelief and thier mouths drop open, which for me is better I always never claim to be a psychic, I attribute what happens to body language and psychology. I like saying things like "have you ever had deja vu, or has the phone ever rang and you know who it was before you answered it? These are real experiences that people can have. Last year after a talent show where I did some mentalism, I had a lawyer come up to me and tell me she believed I had psychic abilitys, and wondered if I would consider working on some cases with her. She also knew I was a magician, but thought I could still read people( which I can).

12-04-2011, 06:21 AM	#5
Johnny Silver Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 52 Donor Score: 100	I agree with children, not appreciating it so much, but being a person who does more mentalism than magic, I disagree that it doesnt hit non-participants as hard. (but thats a whole other conversation, lets stick to the point ) I was wondering where you were going with this subject. In reality we are just tricksters, all of us. Displaying your magic as something more than trickery can be a dangerous game. (like using mentalism for psychics) Man,you are a awesome magician,dont let the art consume you tho. We are entertainers, and the magic we do is for entertainment, nothing more. (beside fun and money ) Let people draw thier own conclusion to your role based on your patter or style of tricks. Dont be bothered or held down by a "title". You are a magician,not a wizard These are just my opinions bro, just tryin to help you find your path...see ya One more update...Have you considered stage magic? It looks very magical, and alot of stage stuff doesnt look like sleight of hand....also you can develop a really cool character as your stage personality

12-04-2011, 08:51 AM	#8
KGaborMagic K. Gábor Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 229 Donor Score: 110	The answer is easy: Mark's tricks. They are real magic.

12-05-2011, 02:46 AM	#10
Albert DarkSleightZ Artist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 671 Donor Score: 110	That definitely helps a lot Fin. Yeah... I really do think I need to re-work on my repertoire. I've been focusing so much on particular moves this past year and a half that I think I'm losing my touch on tricks and ways to add the magic touch... I think I'll really rework my routines. Thanks to all! __________________ "Bluffing is an important act to all strategies." - Lelouch Lamperouge

12-05-2011, 09:53 AM	#11
TheCardician96 TheCardician96 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Britiain Posts: 2	I would use Alchemy for my tricks by Ben Seidman where he vanishes the coin and shows both sides of his hands and will freak the spectator out.

12-05-2011, 12:58 PM	#12
TommySteal Tom Join Date: May 2011 Location: Italy Posts: 274	Hey Albert, I wonder if you ever saw this...beautiful card magic? __________________ My cigar is not a symbol. It's only a cigar. - Sigmund Freud

12-05-2011, 02:38 PM	#13
Albert DarkSleightZ Artist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 671 Donor Score: 110	Oh my... how could I forget about Derren Brown... >.<; He definitely is an amazing guys. I shall work on these tricks... although I have exam so I can't now Alchemy is pretty good too. But Globe is hard enough hahaha __________________ "Bluffing is an important act to all strategies." - Lelouch Lamperouge

12-05-2011, 09:42 PM	#14
la0o9 Move monkey atm Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Not where you'd want to go :P Posts: 747	now i remember just how good a magician Derren Brown is... and a mentalist as well... __________________ "Doubt isn't the same as saying people are bad, it simply means you actually care, 100% trust is nothing more than ignorance"~ Akiyama Shinichi- Liar Game "It's not the destination but the road to it that is worth the trip" "Be careful what you wish for... it might just come true"~ old saying "It's a small world, but only relatively" "Reality is not the world, it is the way humankind depicts the world, thus when you alter a person's way of seeing the world, you alter reality itself"

12-05-2011, 10:04 PM	#15
thetophatfirm Red Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 162	Al schneider __________________ -This the bottom of my thread.

12-09-2011, 03:58 PM	#16
Alexander Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 68	Not so long time ago I performed a simple riffle force and stigmata revelation. After the performance (for a little crowd) some guys afterwards came to me and asked "Man, are you serious? Can you really read minds? That is devilish!". And they were not joking, absolutely serious about their question. That got me a good laughter afterwards

12-09-2011, 10:54 PM	#17
Randy Hobby Magician Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Holland/Rotterdam Posts: 93	You could try Ultracinese i got strong reactions of it very fun to do . or Micro Psychic i think that 1 is even better . __________________

12-31-2011, 09:31 PM	#18
OliveroG Marcos Olivero Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Venezuela Posts: 103	There's a method explained on Juan Tamariz's book (La via mágica in spanish) where he talks about how improve your "sleight of hand" and turn it into magic, he uses a method he calls "fake hints", really amazing book, every magician should read it; 100% effective to make people believe you're doing miracles (even if it's the most stupid trick to the eyes of the magician and layman)