Magicians : The Gathering Forum Is A Joke
 

Here is what makes no sense in my opinion.

Here is the sites first two forum rules:

Everyone is equal
All of us are human beings and we all deserve each other's respect. This also means we expect everyone to respect each other's opinions, performances and all the different kinds of arts, even if it is something you totally don't like or agree with. The only exception is if the person in question is not following the forum rules.

Also, Administrators and (Top) Moderators are here just to keep the forums clean and to guide those who need help with the forums. They are in no way better than any other person on here. This differs from most other forums out there where staff and elite members cause a lot of unnecessary trouble and hate by thinking they are better than the rest of the community. Please don't worry.

No hate allowed
No one likes hate, nor do we.

It's okay to have opinions, but please word them as opinions as well, preferably in a nice way (f.i. "I didn't like it." instead of "That sucked!"). Even more appreciated would be constructive feedback so that the person in question knows what you didn't like about it and what they might have to work on.

The only times hate is okay is when it's about things which already go against the forum rules.








------YET, they have a specific forum dedicated for exposure toward other people. This is a corrupted forum. Truthfully, I do not know if its Marks goal to be a genuine nice person to show people the error of their ways with this section of the forum, if so, That is Bull****. Take the JK thread for example, it a good 7 or 8 pages.

We don't flat out hate, we expose bad behavior in order to make people think about what not to do and to actually save the art from going down the drain. You will see that the people who admit that they were wrong will come out a whole lot better than before a thread on their behavior was made too. These individuals are merely authorities to bring across the points (it wouldn't make sense to expose actions if no one would be guilty of them).

All-in-all it's one big win-win situation, even if it looks negative at first sight. But some of our members whose actions have been exposed in the Magic Alert section now are very respected members of this board. It's weird that they got the point and you don't.

And it's not that we break our own rules if you would read them properly. Also, you seem to think this is my own board but everything that happens on here is approved by a team and by the members afterwards. We do take care of complaints, but you can't just come in and compain without being part of the community first. Everyone gets that opportunity.

The exposure threads are not hate, "what you did is wrong" is different from "you suck" or "you're fake"(without evidence of course).

There is no disrespect intended, it is just something I noticed, nothing more.

Did you already forget you bashed on the entire forum and community? "Magicians : The Gathering Forum Is A Joke", "a corrupted forum", which you wrote in the Magic Alert section which is "where inappropriate actions of magicians and magic services are exposed to the public so you know what to look out for.". :thinking:

(Moved this to General Discussions.)

Yes

And its true, People should look out for a forum like this.

Oh so ambiguous.

I see no need for the thread at all. It makes the site look bad, since ur so heavily involved in many of the threads. Some of them are so long, you must have too much time on your hands. And for what? What did it accomplish? How can you sit there and say "Yep that changed the person". Take JK, do u think all 7 or 8 pages really did anything. He probably the same douchebag he was before the thread. It accomplishes nothing. if anything it shows that you are just Bored

Well, recently BenjiTaylor and JohnnySilver have both become respected members of this community, after threads had been posted about them and are now resolved for the better. We can only hope for the same outcome with JK. If the length of the threads is the only thing that you dislike, then you have no valid argument. If the time it takes to turn a person around for the better is what you dislike, then I must tell you, the time and energy to help one person realize their mistake is definately worth it.

You don't know about the people that did change because there is only one solved thread to be seen publicly and eventually that one will be taken down like the other solved ones. We did definitely accomplish things like theheron said. Also, ranting every now and then is very healthy, else you would crop it all up. It must have been a relief for you to post this thread too. ^_^

Yes, some people and services choose to stay on the bad side, but that is not up to us. All we do is exposing those actions. We let the people decide what to think of it, and you decided to call JK a douchebag. In the end calling people that says more about you, and probably not in a positive manner. The fact that you signed up as some anonymous person from the States just to talk bad doesn't seem very positive to me either.

Thats beyond the point Im afraid. Another thing is the whole jonnysilver fiasco i read not to long ago. Is there a reason you dont show the public live performances?

You do realize that what you are doing is exactly what you have described as hating, do you?

Hating on a forum happens when someone mocks another entity (person or group) without valid reasons to support it. Even with valid reasons sometimes, the mockery goes so far it becomes considered hating. We all have valid reasons for exposing some people and those exact reasons are that they are doing something terribly wrong; something that is immoral or misleading, and sometimes, simply turning the art of magic upside down.

One of our main reasons for JK being exposed was for the reasons that he would remove all negative comments from his videos (althought that's one of several reasons). He would also claim to be an authority and ignore the opinions or thoughts of all those who are less experienced or well-known then he is. That's brute ignorance and immoral. It misleads people into thinking experience is the only thing that builds a true magician and all those with less experience should be subject to those with more. If you say that you agree with this, you have one messed up philosophy. And yes, I do mean that offensively because that's wrong.

As for Johnny Silver's case, that has all been resolved with Johnny apologizing for his mistakes. He is a well-respected member of the forums now and quite active too. You can personally message him if you want, but he certainly is a wonderful guy.

Everything else has already been said by theheron and Mark.

You give no valid support for your reasons other than the statement that we hate for no reason, which is untrue, as provided by my example given, that alone. Even when you do provide an argument, that is defeated by ours because it's already answered in the forums in the exposed section.

If you go ahead and read our Ethics Section, you should have a very good idea what many of our Magic Alert section is based off of.

Now, please tell me. Who's hating? I'm sure you have the intelligence to work that out. ;)

I understand

U can delete the thread at this time

We do treat everyone equally. As a forum, everyone is welcome here. The threads expose what people have done that is mainly wrong with ethics, or just downright deceptive. Take the former BenjiTaylor, he was faking his contests, along with fake prizes and everything else. When he stepped foot onto the forum, we gave him his rights, he let him participate like every other member, and we listened to his words. Did us, the moderators, the administrators, ban him on sight? No, of course not! Equality is not the same as exposing the truth. They are two different types of justice.

I agree with you. there is a lot of hate on this forum. So much that I am terrified to post anything. Its like a religeon here, in a sense if you go against it your screwed. Im also upset that I put up a contest on here in hopes to get people off the "i must expose everyone!!!" Idea and more about the art. And it didnt work. I feel cheated because I joined to become better at the art, and mostly its a big dramma bash with every post I read. And I am posting this in hopes it will help people post more skills and tricks then exposures. I am also upset that niether albert nor mark entered my contest and the excuse is not enough time. How can you not have enough time to film your class pass in two min when your spending loads of time exposing people and arguing? I did however get one person that took it serious and now they use there new skill in tricks which makes me so freaken happy you have no idea. I wont say who so it doesnt look like I have favorites. Bottom line is this forum has robbed me of my time and iv gained nothing by reading all the exposures, please mark and albert if you can, enter my contest and do your own it would be greatly respected and do more for me and my skills. PLEASE!!!

Leroy, I really serious hope that you didn't mean that? You know that I usually don't post anything serious until I've practiced enough of a technique to be at a performable level. I've already told everyone that I've recently changed the way I do the classic pass (regardless of the fact that I haven't used that move in around 2 years in a performance). Stating that fact, I can't perform the new or old one at a good enough level yet that I want to post it. It's not that I don't have time to film it. I don't have time to practice it. Usually, when I'm on the forums, I'm at school, either in the library or during break in lectures. Is that really that offensive?

I'm not going to argue about whether there is a lot of hate or not in the forums and your perspective on it. I'm sure you will understand why we stress such acts so strongly as you get further into magic and that's not something we can particularly explain to you clearly enough at the moment.

I spend more time on exposures because of the situation I'm in and the fact that it's 500% more helpful then me putting up my performance of a classic pass.

As I've said before, those exposures are the ground works of what ethics in magic should be. You certainly have learned a lot more than you think and if you feel that way, then that's too bad Leroy. What you are saying right now feels like you blackmailing me, even if you aren't. It's like you are saying that unless I post up my video of the classic pass, all your time here would have been wasted.

I'm going to be harsh on you at this moment right now Leroy, for your own sake in developing in magic: Me putting up my video of the classic pass isn't going to get you nearly as far as you going to practice magic yourself!

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to post up an entry for a contest until I'm satisfied of my own skills. That's that. If you seriously feel like we robbed your time, I'm sorry, but you know what? That was extremely rude, in all honesty.

my post was not intended to be rude. Im sorry I understand your situation. From my point of view I figured people would post ther pass as is without loads ofpractice, and after they practice they post another. Thats why you can keep entering. Im sorry, I didnt think you cared about it and all of your comments on it were about how unfair it was rather then thanks for the contest. And thank you to the low blow to my intelegence, I may not be able spell but im not stupid. Iv been in magic for three years and why am I concidered to be less in love with the art then you if I have a differnt view on the ethics. Please albert I respect you a lot and what you said hurts. I do understand magic that is why I create my own. to me it feels like you think im just another kid that wishes to impress people with a trick. Im sorry albert but you have been rude to me as well

I never stated that you didn't have passion for the art in any way, shape, or form, nor did I ever intended to or say you were stupid in any way. Why are you taking it like that? Just because I didn't enter your contest, you are saying I've made such claims? I'm really offended Leroy. I respect your views and didn't ever make any statements to strike a blow to that, only to show you what I meant. If that made you feel like I'm treating you like another kid, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be taking it like that!

I'm shocked and speechless... :hm:

I share Albert's thoughts. How can you say you didn't gain anything from here? All you have to do here to gain whatever you would like is to simply ask, and we would definitely respond. Also, didn't I help you out with your creation... for nothing... simply because you asked? Doesn't seem like you appreciate that after all.

We are a community. If you wanted only Albert or me to join your contest, you should have said that. I am currently working on a release regarding the 'Pass' and thought that it would be nice to have that done first before uploading my attempts on the 'Classic', especially because I never took the time to learn the true 'Classic Pass' in my life and that is the only thing you allow in your private magicians contest. I have to be an example for many and so does Albert, so us uploading terrible passes wouldn't get anyone anywhere and could be very counterproductive instead, making it seem like it's okay to do the 'Classic Pass' like that.

If you feel like being treated like a kid in any way, I apologize. I have no idea where this thought comes from though. I don't know what Albert has done, but from what I can see all communication with you has been mature. And even mature people can joke around every now and then, but it is by no means our intention to make you or anyone else feel like a child or to be rude to anyone, and you know that.

Hey, I'll toss up my opinion on the matter for anyone who's interested.

I agree with Albert and Mark. And by saying that, it does not in ANY way mean that we are all ganging up on you or anything, because that is not the case. We all have different beliefs and opinions which other people may or may not understand. To be honest, recently I haven't been practicing magic as much as I used to. I've just been busy with other things. Even so, I'm still on these forums all the time. Perhaps I'm not quite as active as I used to be in regards to posting, but I still read all the threads.

For the Classic Pass contest, I'm sorry I didn't enter. I can barely do a classic pass (yes I suck that much!). I don't mean any disrespect by not entering. I personally think that the contest was a great idea. I mean, we had something like 10 people enter, and that's great considering there weren't any physical prizes for it. That's awesome, 10 people entered just for fun, and bragging rights of course! I understand how you feel that not everyone entered, especially Mark and Albert.

I have an interesting personality, one that lots of people around the world share. The desire for positive reinforcement, especially when it comes from someone you respect. Everyone enjoys hearing it, some more than others. For me, it's really important. I need to feel liked and involved in pretty much everything. I despise being left out, I can't stand it. That's just who I am. I guess it could be because my self esteem and confidence isn't incredibly high. Because of this, I can come across as annoying at times (or all the time! :)), but that's fine. Because that's who I am, and if other people don't like it, then it's their loss. The problem for me is when I think I annoy the people I respect.

I post nearly every single video of mine up for feedback on these forums, because I need that reinforcement. I'd prefer if everyone would leave feedback and criticism, but it isn't possible. I'd love to see comments from Mark and Albert on my videos, because as a magician I truly respect their skills and performances. But just because they don't comment doesn't mean that they hate me, or dislike me, or anything along those lines.

So, to end that long rant, maybe you're like me. Whether you are or you aren't it's up to you how to interpret your thoughts. And I've learned that unless directly told by them the exact things I'm feeling, then I'm always wrong, because it's just my stupid dinosaur brain being dumb!

As for me, I'd never consider being on these forums a waste of time. Because I've made friends with some awesome people here, and that is enough to keep me on these forums, even if I'm currently going through a magic drought.

Keep in mind that all of the above is my opinion, and in no way do I mean any disrespect towards you or anyone else reading it.

P.S. One last thing for Mark, which I'm about to edit out of the post: