Herrmann Shift/Turnover Pass

[TheMisdirectingHand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB_lf1rmYno

After some refining...

[la0o9]

nicely done my friend.

[Kieran Oloughlin]

I saw no flahses well done. Now to see if Mark can notice any

[s13zeTheDay]

There aren't any flashes. A flash is when you expose the method. These may not be perfect, but that's a different issue, and I'm not going to sit and nitpick with my magicians eye when these are both very nicely done.

That said, in a general sense I would advice against using both of these moves, as they are hard to justify on their own the same way you can easily justify a classic pass. Though there are some situations for which they are great (especially the turnover pass), just use caution. Make sure you have a very good reason for turning the deck.

[la0o9]

there are always some sort of reason you could make up for using the turnover pass( actually... all i use that for is to show that the bottom card isn't their card... after i controlled it to the bottom, so my words probably doesn't mean much). But i agree with you about the Herrman Shift, i myself only practice it for fun but don't use it( same way i do with the Erdnase 1 handed shift and the classic pass)

[Kieran Oloughlin]

the herman shift just looks like you are squaring the cards

[TheMisdirectingHand]

@Seize- I think that the Herrmann/Turnover Pass can be used just as effectively as a Classic Pass. I always have justification for turning over the pack; I think it is more effective at times because of the "move" being invisible. The Classic Pass can be flashed more easily if looked at directly.

[s13zeTheDay]

I'm just saying that a lot of magicians I see either just use squaring the deck or something like showing that the bottom isn't their card ass an excuse. You just pushed it fairly into the middle, why are you showing the bottom? While I was just using the pass as an example (which, btw, if you are flashing you just need to practice, b/c done well theres a near 0 chance of flashing, even with people burning your hands), my main point was that there are much more useful sleights and controls that can accomplish similar or the same things. You should always put the justification of the sleight BEFORE how proficient you are at it. Also though I don't dislike either move, and use the turnover pass in one of my favorite routines, these two involve obvious movements of the deck which need to be justified. Again, not trying to detract from the performance, which was very good, just stating my opinions.

[TheMisdirectingHand]

I can't change your opinion, I just personally love using it. Out of the two though, I would prefer the Classic Pass because of its convenience. Though every move has to have a purpose, the justification used by the performer could be interpreted differently by magicians and laypeople. The Turnover Pass is a beautifully crafted move with plenty of applications. I can think of a few effects where the Turnover Pass would be handy- but I am just starting out with magic, so my opinions are not based off of too much, only my own knowledge, so I am sorry if I offend you in anyway at all.

[Mark]

When performing for laymen I think it's better to overjustify than to not do it at all. They know something is going to happen and they want to be sure the card is lost so I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Oh the times I was asked to show the top and bottom card.. it happens pretty often.. even when you fairly pushed the card in the middle. ;)

Oh, and nice ones, David! ^_^

[Kieran Oloughlin]

I use the table tap pass a lot but to it on my leg it is effetive and justified
(except that the cards sometimes end up more meesy than when befor I tapped them)

[la0o9]

uhm... what is the table pass? it is a pass that needs to be on a table to be done?( usually that's the meaning i'd resort to... but i actually know 2 passes that needs a table to work... and neither of them are named as such)

[Mark]

It's not a 'Table Pass' but a 'Table Tap Pass' a.k.a. the 'Hoffman's Pass'. Tapping the deck onto the table top or on you knee in order to square it up is basically the cover you use. For the rest it's just a 'Herrmann's Pass'.

[Kieran Oloughlin]

Yep thats the one