What da reason for this?

[Kieran Oloughlin]

Yo!
I have wanted to post this for a while and never go around to it so here it is.

I have been doing magic for about 8 or 9 months now, and I love it. DUring the holidays or weekends I sit at my card mat at night and practice till I am I cant practcie anymore because I am to tired durig the week I practice in the afternoon. Anyways not everyything is for everyone. WHat I mean by this is some poeple are naturals at stuff and others are not. Fro example so Jugglers are naturals and can master 7 balls within 2 years of starting others can be juggling7 for 2 and a half and still not have it done. Not due to practice but due to natural ablilty.

Now althought I get nervous when performing magic I just seem to know how to perform and what to and what not to do even thought no one has told me. I do not make the mistakes that I see other ne macigians make. I see my friend do all this wierd things including being suspicous by doing things like reapting the fact thatthe spectator is holding X card in their hand during the card in hand trick be very very specific on how to do a cut and not casual (you would have to see him to see what I mean) and finally reapting some tricks more than once to the smae person (for example the hindu shuffle fore combined with some showman ship he did it 5 times to one person within a half hour:mad::mad::mad:) and many more.

I think about magic A LOT! ANd I also have a loical kind of brain which helps me work tricks out so when thinking about magic I just work out what to do and what not to do. I dont want to sound stuckup where people by the way.

SO anyways maybe I am a bit of a natural at magic (MAYBE!) as I suck a pretty much evrything else (except school work but that is because I try very hard) and my friend is just not right for magic as he makes mistakes that I am pretty sure I very rarly made. I shoulkd also put in I practice about 30mins a day minium and if you ask him something he should say is "Practice. WHat is practice?" I dont want to seem as if I am gossiping about my friend he is a very friendly person but he sucks at magic and does not practice enough.

SO the point of this was just to ask you people, who here are naturals? and what do you think the reason for my little mistakes and my friends very many mistakes are?

SOoo yeah I dont know what else to say I will also but in that misdirction I find is pretty easy for me as I just act causal and dont raise my voice or do any of those indicating signs while of my friend does.

[Travmang]

Hey man. I myself have my own style of magic. I am a magic newcomer, and I'm constantly fiddling with cards while watching TV or watching a StarCraft 2 stream, and other random stuff. For me, I prefer clean, impromptu tricks that don't really rely on misdirection. I prefer straight sleight of hand that doesn't even 'NEED' misdirection to work. For example, I've been working on 'Dyed' from Mark(even though its not impromptu since i need the basic setup for the trick to work). I'm having trouble explaining it but I prefer that over the tricks that make a quick flashy movement to swap a card or something, because the spectator knows you did something. Anyways, most of the pure sleights that don't require misdirection seem to be intermediate/advanced moves, and I don't have unlimited amounts of money to be able to spend it all to buy books and other stuff. Although I do plan on buying every Darksleightz release! I'm rambling... lol.

Back to the main point. I think practice is very important, and while some people have a natural 'dexterity' to their hand movements or talents, I still believe they should practice to keep their skills flawless. I barely know any tricks, because I try to learn the ones that relate to the skillset I listed above, which may be problematic for me. I can barely make a pinky break for a double lift without it easily being noticed, and while on that topic, my double lifts are extremely obvious. It hinders me that I lack those basic fundamentals for card magic, so I practice them when I have the chance. So I'd say I'm not a natural, and I do practice alot.

I try to act casual when I do my magic. Like I said, I prefer the less flashy tricks. Especially for me I don't have the moves down for the really flashy tricks so it becomes so obvious that I'm swapping cards or something of that matter.

Hopefully most of our members will participate in this thread to help eachother out and give some friendly advice!

/end rant!

[Albert]

I don't know if I can say I'm a natural, but I do believe I am a fast learner. I think playing the piano in the past really helped me with dexterity, since I've been playing it since I was around 7 to 16 or 17 (forgot when my piano tutor quit being a private tutor :().

There are obviously moves I just cannot learn fast enough. A lot of the times, I practice a move and it seems workable and so I practice it. But then, it just doesn't improve no matter how much I practice fast enough, so I create a new method of achieving the same effect, maybe changing up the finger positioning as an example. In other words, I like shortcuts, but as long as those shortcuts are just as good or better than the original.

I do also think very seriously on how people "would" view what I do and try to put myself in the spectator' shoes'. That's why practice is so essential, in which it seems like Kieran's friend is missing tremendously.

Whenever someone asks me to teach me a trick, I usually say no. If they pester me about it enough, I'll ask why. Most of the time, they say something like "so I can show it to my friends" or "so I can get (or impress) girls" or whatnot; just all for the wrong reasons to be a good magician in my opinion. Those reasons are valid, just not very good reasons, good enough to take you further.

So point is that practice is important, thinking about your spectator's views are important, and possibly even your motive behind magic. If your motive is weak, so will your foundation and your desire to actually spend countless hours to improve yourself. :)

[la0o9]

I, like Albert, can't say that i'm a natural, i'm not THAT egotistic, but i can call myself a quick learner( actually, now that i think about it, that's about all i can call myself), i can do moves that people tend to take a long time to master on my 2nd or 3rd try at it( yes, i'm talking about when i practice the moves, the 2nd or 3rd try usually looks like the genuine one).

To me, practice is nothing more than time-killers, when i'm bored to the end of the Earth and need something to do, i'll take out a deck and perform various effects that i want to master to myself on a table top( serious hate close up mats, don't really do close up, i only do walk-around) or on the floor. I do know practice is important, but unless the techniques i want to learn is a knack( like most flourishes are), i don't master it completely

[Kieran Oloughlin]

Okay then. Still do you guys ever do those sought of mistakes that me friend makes because I dont think I ever did, I may of a few times when I first started performing stuff at school but I had a lot of practice on my little brother and I had been doing magic much longer than my friend but I started perfroming because HE started performing I didnt want people to think he was the only magician

[TheMisdirectingHand]

Those mistakes are usually because your friend is running out of material, or it is because his mind is blank at the moment. Why would be he performing magic to the same person for half an hour? If you don't want people to think he is the only magician, look for other people. He may just be performing consistently because he think it will keep up his reputation as a magician.

Also, I don't think I am a natural either. There is one other person at my school who knows very basic sleight of hand... but he tries to overdo everything, I taught him one or two effects myself. It is not whether we are a natural at magic or not, it is how we start ourselves it in the first place. If one has a calm and cool-headed personality, there is a chance he would be a great magician, comedian, lawyer, etc.

Practice is one of those "time-killers." It is great because we do not know that we have gotten better at something until we perform again. When I have too much time on my hands, I whip out my cards. One time I was practicing my lifts and pass for an hour without being fully aware of the time. That paid off a great amount in live performances.

[Albert]

Repeating ticks, like what David said, is most likely due to him either lacking material to perform or lacking the confidence to perform other tricks.

I don't remember what I was like when I started out magic, but when you first learn it, you want to perform it for someone so badly because you are excited about learning something cool you can showoff. That is also probably why he isn't patient enough to refine his moves before showing off.

A good alternative may be for you to show something so good to the usual crowd your friend attracts. Something so good that without practice, your friend can never ever surpass you. This builds up reputation of who you are and what you are like. You are also in a good situation to do so since people can compare you to him.

I had a good friend named Shane once, and he was a hardcore Criss Angel fan: dressed like him and did black magic stuff (with fake blood, etc.). Although he took more initiative to perform to people, one of the big reasons why he wasn't as well known in school as a magician compared to me was that he lacked the presentation and the practice to really pull off his tricks. To the spectators, it was cool, but that's all that was. It wasn't magical enough to make people ask him for more and more and more.

I hope that sort of answers your question.

[la0o9]

Albert and David already said it, but i'll say it again. Mistakes like the ones you named( giving weird instructions, emphasizing on unimportant things...) are due to:
1) lack of material( so he uses the same technique over and over again)
2) lack of preparation( so he don't have anything to say, just simple: "watch me as i do magic")

get your friend to write a script at home for his tricks before performing( since he can't improvise), or take turns to perform with him, helping him mask the little problems by distracting them( not verbally, but through your performance), after a while you'll both be better and both will gain certain skills

[Kieran Oloughlin]

HEY people.
My friend lacks in material big time. He can do about....10 tricks not this is alright but if you consider the fact that 3 of those are ultragaff deck tricks ahhhh not so great. ANyway people know we are both macigans and he knows that I am better than him. I can do 2 things that will take him motnhs of pratctice to be able to do the pass and the clipshift. People just dont know who is better which irattaes me they think we a re the same skill level but we are not. I may sound mean saying that but because of his lack of practice and the fact that he lloks up how tricks are done on the internet. Not card tricks that you can learn but the tricks criss angle performs such as pulling needles out his stomach.

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

Also... I forgot what I was going to say...

[Albert]

Hey Kieran, it's great to want to be better at magic, but I also want you to think about this: Is this really a competition between your friend to be better than him and make him look bad in comparison or do you just want to be better known at school? Because there are other approaches to that as well.

I think it will be a good idea to think about your main purpose of doing magic as well, which can really give you a reason for doing this. :) Don't think that your reason is wrong or anything. I just think your friend needs a wake-up call and you can do that for him.

[la0o9]

if you use competition as a goal for your magic... you're not gonna make a good magician imo... it's not like magic is your life yet, think of it as a hobby, and you'll soon lose your irritation when you two are compared( the goal that SHOULD be in your head is how YOU can amuse the spectator to your best, remember, it's about THEM not YOU)

[s13zeTheDay]

I agree- though it is very easy to lose sight of the fact, magic is really for the spectators. As I said in another post somewhere, the point of magic is to make sure that your specs DONT know how you did something, and as such they don't take skill into consideration (unless it hinders the performance). EXAMPLE: the spectator will feel the exact same magic if you pass a card to the top or if you start talking and misdirect them while you literally take it and place it on top, even though one is more difficult. As such, really focus on presentation. Engage the spectators, make sure every action is justified, and make sure every routine is smooth and seamless and you will certainly engage the spectators more than your friend.

As for feeling bad, I agree with albert (people on this forum just don't give bad advice... ;)) - it is not a competition at all. I wish I had another magician at my school, whatever his level may be. You just have to accept that he's trying to perform the same art as you and take that as a good thing instead of a challenge. Also, if you really are that angry, just make yourself better. Trust me- if you really do present better magic (not just more difficult magic), people will notice.

P.S. I know it's a bit wordy- sorry bout that

[Kieran Oloughlin]

I know it is not meant to be a cmpetiton but when I started magic I read stuff on the internet about it and what I saw a lot of was people tlaking about friends they had that also did magic and by the way they sounded there levels where pretty equal. SOmetimes while watching magic vidoes also people credit theri friends for teaching them stuff that helped with the trick so when my freind decided he was going to start magic I was happy. I was hoping that we would be able to discuss sleights ad tricks and teach each other stuff but it has not looked that way. But when he did little practice I got annyoed about this so I stared to practice more and push him to rpactice more and but he didnt and when people thought that he was equal to me like when I did a trick none of my friends said aything and I aksed why one of them said "Thats because we know (friends name) can do everything you can" and thats when it became a competition but insetad of my friend denying it he said "Only about half" WHICH IS WRONG! So I got annoyed tht people thought we where equal when he only did 30mins practice a week while I did an hour so I started doing evrything I could to show I was better (I may sound evil but you may of possibly do the same if in the same sitiuation)

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

My motivation to do magic and to become better is not the fact due to my firend but because I love magic and I love seeing what I hope one day I will be able to accomplish

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

Another reason for the competivness with me and my friend is that he is very competative with me in evrything. He is always like what did you get in in your prac report and what grade did you get if I beat him (which is most of the time) he is like Damn and then starts thinking about how his moither is going to be angry about how he did not get an A if he beats me he brags. He is better then me shooting games I used to be a gammer but mainly played games like the 2d sonic games and pokemon I still play games just not as much and whenver I am at his house and we are playing Cod or Halo I die a lot and he laughs and say u suck and stuff (even though he would fail at stuff like sonic) so now that I have something we both do I wanna keep ahead of him so that he can never brag or laugh at me.

[la0o9]

so you're saying you think you're underrated? it does kinda suck if your specs doesn't react to what you think is a good trick... simply walk away with a smile and stop doing tricks temporarily, brush up your skills and go back to performing, with a style that will relate to your specs, making them think it's all about them, not about you. the only reason why there would possibly be any comparison between magicians made by laymen is because they think they're suppose to be judging you guys, and that only happen if they are made to think, by you, that magic is about the magician

the thing about games, he probably have a superiority complex, just ignore the side comments, admit that you're not that good with that, he'll stop pestering you about it when he gets bored by your indifferent attitude( that's what i do all the time with that type). The way you talk, you seem to have a small case of superiority complex as well... make sure you don't show it outwards or you might fall deeper into your current situation( believe me, i have superiority complex as well, and i was a horrible magician back then)